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Re: Few Questions

From: Shemayah
Date: 07 Jul 1999
Time: 01:40:20
Remote Name: 204.116.99.98

Comments

Shalom Mike,

I will try to answer each.

1) What would you say is the fundamental difference between an Ebionite and a Messianic Jew? I know both terms, especially the latter, encompass a great continum of beliefs, but I've met many in the Messianic jewish movement who seem to agree with many of your arguments.

Not being an expert on Messianic Judaism, I will attempt to make some observations. MJ is rejected as being Jewish by most Jews. MJ tries to keep ties with Rabbinic Judaism. We are not Rabbinic, but more Qara'ite in tendencies and outlook. the only halakah we have much to do with is the teachings of Yahshua and his approach to Torah. Many MJ (although, to their credit, many congregations are moving farther from it) have strong ties to Christianity and in many cases are projects of gentile churches and for the most part are Christian churches with Hebraic trappings. Christians are with little exception trinitarian, which we absolutely reject.

Also, we do not see differences of faith for gentiles and Jews. Gentiles should cease being gentiles. All should become Jews and embrace Torah.

2) If the Gospels are "edited" and "tarnished" as was revelations, what are the scriptures that an Ebionite would read concerning Yeshua? What proof could you have that he even exists? One of the only sources outside of the bible that addresses him is Josephus, and his work has been under attack in recent years for editing, additionally, most historians consider him an Ebionite Christian. I'm not sure then what an Ebionite might be left with.

I think there are pages on the site that answer this. Look for Bible/Tanak/authority and such in the contents of the site.

3) How can you use an alternate spelling of the city of Paul's birth to say that the gematria of his name = "666"? Wouldn't it make more sense to look at his name itself? Wouldn't that only prove that the city of Tarsus is the antichrist?

I am not sure it is an alternate spelling. Tarso, i.e., the city name was likely being used as a codeword for readers (who were suffering persecution from Paulists). In the same way, Paul is called Simon Magus by some with Ebionite leanings. But I believe this is dealt with on the site.

4) No offense intended, but you seem to be assuming a lot of anger in the community of people who have read the new testament scriptures. Paul in his epistle to the Galatians go into great depth on how people should be free to be circumcised, observe the jewish holidays, and anything else they want as long as they avoid the error of the Pharisees and confuse religion with faith. Are there any non-Ebionite authors that back up your claims that Paul was a non-jew who hates all things jewish? (How many gentiles ran around with the name Saul in the first century?)

On the site is an article by a Muslim historian, Abd al-Jabbar, dealing with such beliefs. There are a good number of modern scholars who are zooming in on Paul also. I will not give an exhaustive list, but a number of authors can be found on the site. Hyam Maccobby is just one, and he can be found on the site.

Please take these questions in the spirit in which they were intended, a search for truth wherever it may be. I would appreciate any help you could give me in this matter.

Thank you very much! Michael Marse Mikeem@Worldnet.att.net


Last changed: November 13, 2006

Ahmed007

From: None
Date: 13 Nov 2006
Time: 03:53:51
Remote Name: 10.124.131.236

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